28 October 2009


Note: For the Purposes of this blog today, I will observe the Jewish principle of not spelling out the name of G-d, because HE is simply too HOLY to be named out loud. If I communicate the following effectively, you will understand why.
The award winning contemporary Christian band, THIRD DAY, whose music and message I love, has a song "Consuming Fire" referring to the passage in Hebrews. It's a powerful song; a joy to worship with, but the lyrics seem irrelevant (my apologies to the author)to the passage in Hebrews:

"Did you ever realize, deep inside of you there is a flame.
Did you ever try, to let it burn, let it burn:
'Cause our G-D, HE is a Consuming Fire...
(words and music by Mac Powell, 1995 New Spring Publishing Inc)

G-D reveals Himself in Scripture in a wide variety of descriptions, e.g He is the Righteous Judge (II Tim 4:8), and a Friend who sticks closer than a brother (Prov. 18:24)
Dr. A. B.Badger in "TULIP: A Free Grace Perspective Part 2 Unconditional Election" (Journal of The Grace Evangelical Society, Autumn 2003), describes G-D in a way uniquely terrifying to me: He says that G-D is everywhere everytime all at once. Please bear with me while I stammer through this: HE created time. Time bears no restriction to HIM. Also HE always was going to do what HE was going to do. If I understand Dr. Badger, G-D being eternally Omniscient always knew what He would do, HE always knew what HIS creatures would do and there was never actually a deciding moment: HE has simply forever known absolutely everything: the creation, the fall, the incarnation, the cross, my thought thirty million years from this moment HE IS there now. He is outside of the Time-Space Celestialarium. It's not past, present, future for G-D: There is no before and after. HE is everywhere everytime present. Jesus said: Verily Verily I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. John 8:58. I never saw it that way before. The Universe: 15 billion light years across or whatever at whatever age it is, and forever after, in fact, The entire time space BUBBLE is less than a single droplet of water in all of the seas of all of the planets of the Cosmos compared to ALMIGHTY G-D. G-D has always known everything and has never decided anything. Deciding implies not knowing before. The thought process is so foreign to me that reading it agitated me. God became an alien to me: No. I mean like a Beheamoth Thick Darkness. WHOA Dude! How can HE interact with me since HE does not react, but all of HIS actions were foreknown by Him forever and ever, because HE always knew my reactions! My Savior G-D who is near, I suddenly seriously do not recognize. HE does not even obey time! How can this HOLY SPIRIT, Who makes the entire Universe look like a single spec of dust in a dust storm, relate to me? Suddenly, HIS incarnation is a much bigger deal than I even imagined. The Truth is, G-D IS here ETERNITY Past Present Future Forever is normalcy. We, locked in Time/Space are the anomally. Created for HIS Purposes.
With the Psalmist I proclaim "such Knowledge is too wonderful for me: it is high. I can not grasp it. Psalm 139
In light of this what Does Hebrews chapter 12 reveal about our CREATOR,MASTER and LORD?
The passage in Hebrews 12, is speaking to we who have believed in Him: we who by virtue of His promise and His ability to keep His promise, are secure in Him forever:

Wherefore seeing we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses let us lay aside every weight & the sin that doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.
Looking to JESUS, the Author and Finisher of our faith, who for the joy set before HIM, endured the Cross, despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of G-D.
Consider HIM who endured such...lest you be wearied and faint in your minds. You have not YET resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
V. 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation that speaks to you as unto children:
My son despise not the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when you are rebuked by HIM. For whom the Lord loves, He chastens, and disciplines everyone he receives as His Child....v.9 Furthermore we have had earthly fathers who corrected us and we gave them reverence...[even though they] corrected us for their own purposes, but He [G-d corrects us] for our profit, that we may be partakers in HIS Holiness. No discipline seems joyful, but grievous at the time, but afterwards, it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who are corrected by HIM.
[to verse 18] For you have not come to that mount that can be touched... and burned with fire, nor unto blackness, darkness and tempest and the sound of a trumpet....v. 21 and so terrible was the sight that Moses said "I exceedingly fear and quake"
V22 But you are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the Heavenly Jerusalem, and unto an innumerable company of Angels [innumerable?]. To the General Assembly and the Church of the Firstborne, which are written in Heaven and to G-D the JUDGE of all, and the spirits of just men made perfect [all saints?]: and to JESUS the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. See that you refuse not HIM that speaketh.
V. 25b For if they escaped not who refused HIM who spake on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn again from HIM who speaketh from Heaven. Whose voice then shook the earth, but now HE hath promised saying "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also Heaven. And the word "once more" signifies the removing of those things that are shaken as of things that are made,that those things that can not be shaken may remain.
Therefore we, receiving a Kingdom which can not be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve G-D acceptably with reverence and G-dly fear.

Comments? Thoughts?


  1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  2. Duane, I'm speechless after reading your post. It truly boggles my mind!!! You are right.... He is a consuming fire!!!
    My husband is always quoting from Hebrews. He's going to love your post. This is one that needs to be read and reread. Thanks for sharing your thoughts about G-d with us. AWESOME!!!

    In awe of the incarnation and personal love of Jesus Christ my Savior for little 'ole' me,


  3. Amen and Thanks Diane! BTW there is a little more info about me over at Roses in the comments.

    Wow, who is Phil? This is my first blog site.
    Is this like spam? Did he read the post or just hit and run, or was he ever even really here?

    Good Night! To borrow a phrase from my brother Tim:

    G-d Bless us everyone!

    P.S. You May spell G-D's name out if you please, I just picked up a theme and... no, I felt it was the right thing for me to do, for today.

  4. I just sent out an e-mail to friends and family telling them about your blog. You may get some visitors. But don't know if they'll comment?


  5. Thanks Diane!
    I began studying this Hebrews passage when I heard the song, and was concurrently having some difficulty, which is pretty normal.
    This is what struck me about this passage:
    1. Father disciplines His children individually and personally.
    2. Yet HE is so powerful that the Israelites were terrified at the Mountain of the Ten Commandments. G-D is in that inpenetrable "Thick Darkness". Is that what they call the "shekinah" glory? It's greek to me. A veil still blocks HIM from our view, as the mortal can not behold the Eternal.
    3. Now marry that infinite power (remember HE created this entire time-space bubble), to HIS perfectly intimate relationship with each one of us.
    HE is going to shake not only Earth, But Heaven also. This is not one of those places where hyperbole is used. Literal meaning or not is beside the point. FATHER will move all of creation to refine us.


    Good Night


  6. Wow!!! Amazing thought!!! I can't get my brain around it. To think that our BIG God cares about little "ole" me. That is incredible!!!

    ETERNITY is another BIG one that I can't get my brain around!!! Eternity is a long time, and we will never get bored. What must it be like?!!! Serving and worshiping the LORD forever!!! WOW!!!

    I just finished watching a 3 part DVD series by Bob Bryant (Sr. Pastor of Cypress Valley Bible Church in Marshall, TX). He has some thoughts from scripture that blow my mind concerning eternity. The name of the series is...
    "The Unique Eternal Role of Resurrected People."
    Here's where those DVDs are located....

    Just click on the different headings of topics and the listings in the series will come up.

    My first reaction was..... NO WAY!!! But I have so much respect for Bob Bryant that I listened very carefully and studied the scriptures that he gave. There is some speculation in what he teaches, but it is worth hearing and considering. The one big question that I don't have answered (and he admits that he doesn't either, although he gives some possibilities) has to do with getting around the old sin nature. Now I've probably got you wondering what on earth I'm talking about. Well, if I tried to tell you, you would think I was crazy, so I better not even try to explain. For anyone who's interested, you can hear the tapes on the Internet. I ordered the DVDs and listened to them in the comfort of my living room.

    Bob presented some of this series at the GES Conference last year, and there was a lot of chatter afterwards. I personally liked it even though I still have questions unanswered!!!

    BTW.... I just heard from a missionary friend who was trying to comment here on your blog, but it wouldn't go through. I gave him some possible help, but don't know if it'll work. Hope so.

    Thanks Duane for allowing me the privilege to comment here. I'm enjoying your thoughts very much.

    Rejoicing in Jesus,
    Diane :-)

  7. Hi Diane!

    Yes, I've heard of Bob Bryant but I don't recall reading any of his works. I'll have to check it out. The nice thing about this media, is now that you left that info, it is there where it won't get lost.
    Regarding G-d's eternality, I wrote before specifically about HIS eternal FATHERHOOD.
    Since HE dealt with me then about that; honestly, I should not have the same questions repeatedly about "does HE really CARE about me".
    I finally posted that at a blog by Jeremy Myers, under a thread called "The dark NIght of the Soul". That posting is what prompted me to start this blog.

    here's a link to it:


    God Bless You and Yours Diane,


  8. Hi Duane,

    There is so much of His Word that is mysterious and fascinating to me!


  9. Hi Duane,

    I'll be looking at Jeremy's blog and your comments. I'll probably do that tomorrow since it's so late tonight, and I haven't physically adjusted to the time change yet.
    Jeremy's been a good friend to me in the past, and I appreciate his writings. Smart guy!!! He's got a beautiful family, too!

    Yes, Bob Bryant is always one of my favorites at the GES Conferences. He's got a pastor's heart, and my husband and I ALWAYS learn something from him. He does his homework thoroughly!!! I appreciate him.

    Have a great week enjoying the Lord.

    Diane :-)

  10. Hey, here's the comment from Diane's missionary friend. I'm just new to the whole thing of making comments on blogs and didn't know how to sign in, but better late than never. Anyway, I wanted to say that I appreciate the thoughts from Hebrews and also that I'm excited about the concept behind this blog. I've sometimes wondered what we would be talking about if we weren't arguing about soteriology (not that it's not important). I think talking about how awesome our God is is a good place to start.

  11. Hi Michele! Hi Ken! Hi again Diane!
    Welcome aboard and thanks for dropping in.

    Michele, President and CEO of "Sanc's Blog", I'm honored by your visit.
    I suppose parts of God's word are a mystery, because so much about our GOD is a mystery. That's why I used Moses' term "Thick Darkness". I'm getting used to (to an extent) the idea of GOD being timeless. There are always new suprises, and we'll never really comprehend the Infinity and Holiness and Glory of God.

    Ken, you're not late, you're just on time! I'm honored by your visit as well. I admire you in your calling. May the Lord bear much fruit through your work, and may you even see some of it. I'd like to hear about it.
    Yeah, I love the discussions on soteriology; however, I like for them to stay peaceful.
    I'm not a theologian; there are others very well qualified to probe those issues, I'll be happy to contribute, ask questions and choose sides, but if it gets too frustrating for me, e.g. they have no allegiance to soli fide grace, I'll just visit with people who understand the FATHER the way I do instead.
    In as much as I'm an armchair theologian (I referred to myself as bush league at Rose's the other day), and since I have many thoughts, questions and curiosities to discuss, I decided to start this blog to incite contemplation, discussion and study, on issues other than salvation.
    I am really enjoying this community, which I refer to as a "loose confederacy of free grace bloggers".
    It's like, you can go to somebody's house any night of the week, visit with your friends and theirs, talk about things that are important to all of Us, especially (as Ken said) talk about Jesus and our Father. If there is nothing happening at their house that night, you have half a dozen other friends houses just a click away. As I said to Michele and friends last night, I'm really curious where this is going to go. I'm new. How long has this community been here?

    Well, thanks again!
    Come back any time and just say "Hi" or pitch in. I'm not real timely seeing posts 'cause I work four or five 12 hour days followed by long weekends. 4 weeks on days then night shift 4 weeks. So post and check back.

    In the Love of Jesus and the Father

  12. O.K. I'm deleting the very first comment now, it's probably spam, and the poster is probably just a computer program.



  13. Hi All!
    BTW, The photo in this post was taken this summer, on a very dewey morning. It is a dew drop 1-2 mm diameter on a rose leaf. I beleive that's corn refracted inside. The idea was to imagine Almighty God's exo-view of the time-space continuim- the "celestialarium".

    Your Brother,